So the other day I commented (without thinking fully, imagine that) on dk’s disobedience post.
She was feeling quite low about being punished – and despite how my comment initially came across, I DO understand that.
She relayed her Master’s words at one point in the post and said:
“You will never be dumped by me. You will be fixed by me… corrected by me… purified by me…”
And because of that, I said in comment this:
See, for me, I’d be deliriously happy to hear all that.
*shrug*
I don’t have the “unconditional ownership” thing. There are no promises of “You will never be dumped by me. You will be fixed by me… corrected by me… purified by me…”
For me, there ARE conditions. I don’t have the categorical certainty that I’m still always his no matter what I do. A lot of times I wish I had that safety net and I wish he’d say those things to me. A lot of other times I think it’s delusional to think that safety net can possibly exist, and I’m glad he doesn’t because they would feel like lies.
Additionally, but unrelated, I really have to go to the bank. Bleh.
Hang in there, kiddo. There hasn’t been an experience yet that’s managed to do anything but make you wiser and happier. Take comfort in that, if you can.
dk replied:
While at first I thought your comment was extremely insensitive and put me off a bit, I can see where you’re coming from. And I am of course thankful that I won’t be dumped for going astray. I will however be subjected to his corrective process which could theoretically be a life sentence of suckfulness if I don’t change my ways. The door swings both ways.
And it made me think…
Obviously (well, I hope it was obvious), I didn’t intend to be insensitive. I was just musing, and perhaps a little selfishly… I mean… I just can’t help but think it must be nice to feel owned no matter what.
The concept of a slave/submissive having a “no matter what” clause blows my goddamn mind. When I read about it all I can think is omg, I wish I wish I WISH I had that. But I don’t.
You know what it’s like?
It’s like me and a deeply religious (Christian) person standing next to the casket of a loved one. (A dead woman and a Christian male, for the sake of proper pronouns.)
If that religious person starts talking about his grief, I promise you I DO get it. I know he is hurting incredibly, and I’m NOT trying to downplay that when I say, “But… Take comfort, brother. For you, she’s somewhere safe and she’s watching over you. And one day, you will see her again.”
He believes all he has to do is try hard in life, and even if he messes up, he can just say he’s sorry and God will forgive him. And he lives with the comforting belief that one day, he will see this beloved woman again.
He stands before her body saying “Goodbye for now” while I stand there saying “Goodbye for always” and I simply cannot grasp what it must feel like to have that small comfort in grief. And I am jealous.
I don’t have that element of peace and in a lot of ways, I wish I did.
And here’s the thing. For both the religious person who believes in God and an afterlife and the slave who believes in no matter what – the outcome truly doesn’t matter.
I’m not debating the reality of God, or the reality of “no matter what.” Both ideas are completely unimportant to this thought process.
The POINT is that for their lifetimes (in the case of the religious people), and for the duration of their relationships (for the slave), those people exist with a level of peace that I don’t have.
And even if it turns out that I’M right. If we all die and there is no afterlife… If that slave’s relationship ends in a disastrous break-up… Or, hell, if THEY’RE right and there is a God, or everyone who says “no matter what” truly means it – it doesn’t matter, not to this discussion. Because either way, the fact remains that those people lived and experienced things in life with a peace that I never will.
So I’m a little jealous.
And I can’t force myself to believe in something I find inconceivable and irrational. So I know I’m STUCK being jealous.
And you know what? It makes me pout. It makes me amazed. It makes me ask questions. It makes me wonder. It makes me see things a little differently than the people who DO believe. Not that it’s a bad thing… It’s just… Different.
There are potential downsides, I’d wager, to having either of those faiths. Mostly in the form of self-righteous judgment and scorn. That’s not to say they are foregone conclusions. I’ve met plenty of religious people who are not looking down on me and my filthy soul, and I’d bet there are plenty of slaves who believe in “no matter what” who are not thinking they have something better – or even something fundamentally different. (I say “I bet” for the slaves, because I have only ever heard dk talk about that no matter what faith. I’m sure there are others, I just don’t know who they are. Are they any of you guys? Share! Anyway, I’m pretty sure that even though I don’t share that faith with dk, she’s in the camp of not looking down on me. Well, I HOPE she is, at least! *grins*)
The chance to muse on this was awesome. I’ll continue tomorrow, because I have lots more to talk about. But I’m sick sick SICK today, so no more tonight (and no VFF pictures taken today and only two from yesterday, taken before sickness set in, which I’m too lazy to post now. If anyone complains, I WILL post pictures of puke, I swear on everything I hold dear. I will.)
Anyway… Thanks, dk. I’m sorry the discussion came about because I came off sounding a little insensitive in my comment. I didn’t mean to.
I can just be a little childlike and abrupt in my moments of wonder.
…and of course, I was in a WORLD of feeling sorry for myself when I read your comment, lol. And for the record, I haven’t been punished yet. That was all just to make me feel repentant and to understand the seriousness of my crime.
I’m too busy trying to stay out of trouble to be looking down my nose at anyone!!!
Nice post, Chloe. Feel better!
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Chloe Reply:
December 5th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
It’s just about bed time for me. So I will be sleeping shortly! Swear!
And even though, yes, I thought the things you talked about WERE a part of your punishment, we’ll just go ahead and pretend I meant “being punished” the same way I mean it when I say something like… “being at my brother’s for Christmas.” Yanno. Like it’s in the future. *nods* Just pretend with me that I make sense, please.
Goodness my head hurts… Oy.
Going to go take your advice and feel better now.
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Chloe, I’m trying to keep a low profile online lately as Amber but I just had to comment on this.
My belief on this subject is very strong because I’ve watched too many people in my years on this planet make decisions and then stick by them when it was time to make a change. It’s especially sad to see it happen in this world of D/s because by the very nature of it, the sub is expected to give up his/her longings in deference to the Dom. And although I truly believe most of the time, both parties mean well, this often means that the sub won’t even try to get his/her needs even met.
And I *get* it that that’s the turnon, that’s the thrill, that’s the connection we crave, both D and s. “I have no feelings, I am only his, even my emotional pain at not having his care, I am happy to serve…” I get it.
But, just as everything else in life, when it doesn’t fulfill your soul, then it’s not working. Now, I’m not saying that you are unhappy; I do not know if you are or not. Perhaps it makes you very happy to long for this with Antonio and not have it. I know women who have only online relationships and they are very content. I know other women who have to have it in the flesh. And I know a ton of women who are too scared to even try to change their situation, vanilla or otherwise.
I was one of those. For a long time, more than 20 years, I did not think I was worthy of the very specific kind of love and attention I craved. And yet…I never reached out for it. It is in my nature to serve and submit and I tried to do it with the very first man who gave me any kind of attention or love. It was only later that I realized…he wasn’t giving me what I needed so badly. *sighs*
I don’t know what I’m trying to say except…go for what you want, don’t settle for anything less. It may be that you are happiest right where you are. That NOT having that safety net makes you really happy, that the longing for it and not having it is the kind of masochism you need. That you are exactly where you want to be.
If that’s so, then more power to you. But if you want more than that, if you really want what dk has with her man, if you really wish for that the way you’ve written there, then damn it, look for that.
I firmly believe we all deserve to be happy. I do. I think too many times too many of us don’t dare to even TRY and get what we want. We don’t think it exists, we think we want too much, it’s not realistic, etc., etc.
I reached out for what I wanted and I am still amazed I did so. Everyone around me was amazed, too. But I wanted to be owned and smothered and completely dominated. I wanted to be taken, to be told there was no way I could ever deny him. And it is still that way, to this day. Not too long ago, because after 11 years, we have become…somewhat like a well oiled-machine (grins)…I was worried, I thought because maybe he didn’t want it anymore, my obedience and my submission. I brought this up and oh my god…wow. The wrath of god upon my head.
I was very swiftly brought into line and shown the “error of my ways”. *grins* And I want that, I depend on that.
There are millions and millions of people who would hate that; I don’t. I revel in it.
So, I say to you, ask yourself what you really really want. (“tell me what ya want, what ya rly rly want, I’ll tell ya what I want, what I rly rly want”…spice girls…lol)
Everyone reading this…what do you want? If you don’t know, fine. Experiment. Try. Reach out. And if it isn’t working, try something else.
Dan and I have tried various ways over the years to do “TTTWD”. We were often afraid it might break us, to even suggest to the other that, for whatever reason, TTTWD wasn’t working anymore, but it never did. Open communication. Honesty. Willingness to listen. Those are key.
This is probably overkill, and no doubt due to us having just come through another semi-rough spot (although again, I marvel at how such times are actually about growth and not negative at all) but…it just *pains* me to read about someone longing for something and feeling they cannot even ask for it.
I was once that way and never never again. I love my submission and I deserve someone who will take full control and advantage of it and me. To exult in controlling me, owning me, to make sure I always know I am his property.
We all do, all of us subs.
Life is too short to not feel fulfilled in every way, my friend. Too damn short. I think you are totally awesome and I want you to have every happiness you deserve.
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wow, nice post Amber! *waves waves!*
I want to mention there is ONE condition for my release. If he ever feels I stop thriving under his ownership. Then he could possibly release me. (Which would kill me btw, and I would immediately cease thriving and my head would falled off)
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It sometimes seems to me that there’s reality and there’s fantasy and, somewhere in between, a kind of almost ‘wishful thinking’ that both Doms and subs can equally succumb to. For us, our reality is that neither of us can, in this moment, imagine not being together. I cannot imagine not being his. He cannot imagine not owning me. However, we also both believe that just because we cannot envisage such a time right now doesn’t mean that it couldn’t happen. It simply isn’t possible for us to imagine every conceivable situation which might present itself to us and to be certain of what our reactions to that situation might be.
It strikes me that every relationship which ends quite probably started as one in which ‘forever’ was the dream. If we accept that, its seems unrealistic to ignore that as a possibility for every relationship. That’s not meant to be negative, just realistic.
Things happen, people and their feelings change. Life and what unfolds as we live it changes us. Having been widowed twice I don’t believe in safety nets, beyond my own capacity to pick myself up and get on with the future…..often one day at a time. We may feel that life for us would stop if, for some reason, we couldn’t be with the ones we love but it doesn’t. That’s quite possibly the only thing we can be certain of.
love and hugs xxx
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Chloe Reply:
December 6th, 2009 at 8:25 am
See? I knew you would speak about it more eloquently than I could… You always do!
And… I don’t mean it to be negative, of course. I agree that there probably aren’t many relationships that started with the idea of “well, this will end” or marriages where people stood at the alter thinking, “50-50 shot, I guess. Crappy odds. Eh, well, we’ll see…” I think most people think they are building a life that will land squarely in the “success” column, even though most don’t go that way. It’s not a bad thing, it’s not negative… It’s just not realistic. And it doesn’t mean I need to live like there is no tomorrow… I think that is akin to living like you wouldn’t appreciate the gift of tomorrow. So I am trying to be happy with today AND be thankful for the possibility of my tomorrows. It’s not easy. It’s easier to just pretend like everything will be okay for always, no matter what. I just don’t know if that line of thinking will give me the most rewarding, cherished todays.
I’m working on it!
Thank you, as always, for your wisdom, M:e.
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really interesting discussion… I’m going to have to find some time and really muse it through.
Once I would have said there is a “forever”; I would have had good solid reasons for saying that – and years and years and years to prove it. And lots of pain and stress and angst, which despite all, still allowed me to stand and say, yeah, it sucked, it hurt, but in the end, nothig has changed… we’re still together, we’re still crazy about each other, it will go on.
Now, I don’t think so.
things can change.
Shit happens and certain shit just changes people, it just does.
I don’t believe in that “forever” crap – nor the heartfelt, truly well meant, truly honest belief that “no matter what” you’ll always feel that way.
35 years and change tells me the truth is that it CAN change; and that love can still be there but you can walk away.
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Chloe Reply:
December 11th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Interesting comment, selkie… I look forward to reading your musings on it so I can yak at you more there!
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