Limits fascinate me. (This is not a difficult feat. I can be fascinated by sewing kits. Those mini scissors are OMG, SO SMALL.)
What are some of my limits? Well, I will have a huge (and somewhat hilarious, being as it was written way back in the day) post about this, so I won’t go into them deeply at the moment. But, I’ll pick one to illustrate my point. Let’s use bestiality since I’ve gone into more depth with it before.
I ain’t doing it. Nope. Not happening. Ever. I’ll never have sex with any living or previously living thing that cannot give informed consent.
(Errrm… Except produce. I don’t get consent from produce. And that shit is definitely alive in some capacity. But once that comes off the vine, isn’t it dead anyway? But wait, does that make me some kind of vegetarian necrophiliac? *headdesk*)
Anyway, the reason it’s okay for me to have limits, and still be considered a slave, is because…
…
…
Wow, I just realized this whole post could end there. Because the reason I can have the limits AND be a slave? It’s ’cause HE thinks it’s okay. Nothing else ANY other human has to say about it matters. If he says so? Then it is so.
But, it’s me, so I have a WAY longer post in mind. So, the OTHER reason I can have limits is because Antonio and I share the same core limits.
I knew his limits going into this… I have to assume I’m not the only slave who met her Master and didn’t just say, “You know what, let’s not talk about anything or get to know each other whatsoever. Let’s just be Master and slave. Sound good? Good. What’s your name again?”
In the beginning we slapped names and titles on our lifestyle. We said “Dominant” and “submissive” to describe ourselves. I was, at that time, caught up in semantic definitions. I was scared if I so much as thought to myself I wanted to be a “slave,” I’d live in a hell-world of licking poopy toilets and never seeing another living soul or something.
I was, as it happens, a bit of a moron.
And yes, eventually, we started just thinking of each other in terms of Master and slave. (Okay, that’s a lie. He just growled out “SLAVE” one day, and I was dumbfounded for a while, but it sounds way better if I say we came to some magical, mutual, mental agreement in our deeply connected subconscious minds.) I guess it made more sense to call ourselves that, in a way. Kinda? It also is slightly pointless, because no title change in the world will change my dynamic with him. But it works for him, so it works for me.
We spent a long time exploring, verbally before physically, our kinks and desires and goals and histories. I got a LOT of assignments that included everything from describing fantasies to playing a sort of word association game with dozens of terms. I had to discuss things I felt I was unwilling to explore no matter what, and things I didn’t want to do, but I knew wouldn’t harm me or go against any of my ethics, etc.
I see now that these were mental exercises designed so he could see what I was ready for, and see how much of a struggle I might put up over certain things, not for me to establish ground rules. There were things I said “Nooooo” to that he just kind of nodded and was like “Okay, I understand YOU don’t want that. Next?” But there were some things, the important things – like bestiality, incest, necrophilia, pedophilia, infidelity – that he said “Agreed. Absolutely not going to happen, discussion over about that” to.
Those are HIS limits, if you can call them that. He doesn’t need limits, because something he doesn’t feel like doing will never be explored in the first place. So they are not that important for HIM to know or talk about. But I needed to know he had them and what they were, before I could truly give myself to him as his slave.
If he’d been into certain things, bent on, I don’t know… Loaning out my services to a million random people or making me give dogs blow jobs… He would not have been the Master for me. I would still have been a submissive woman and he would have still been a dominant man (and he would have made another slave a very happy girl I’m sure) but we would not have been right for each other.
Does that make me not a “true” slave? I dunno and, more importantly, I don’t care. I’ve always felt deeply submissive, and while I might not be A slave, my only goal is to be HIS slave. He says I am, I say I am. Problem solved and discussion over as far as I’m concerned.
I think I’m not being clear. Or at least, I could be clearer. I’m saying everyone is like this, I think. If you’re fundamentally against infidelity (as I am) you would not gravitate toward a Master who was into loaning out his property. And if you did, or entered into something before figuring out the foundations, you’d probably be miserable. If you simply didn’t LIKE it, didn’t WANT to do it, you might end up happy, if being made do to things you don’t like is a kink.
But if the action burned your soul and made you loathe who you are? That’s different. You would not be a happy person, never mind a happy slave. You can’t loathe something on a soul-deep level and still be happy with yourself and life. You can’t loathe who you are as a human being and be happy. I think a relationship that made you feel that would fail. Not because someone was a bad slave or a bad Master, but because two people with different CORE limits who are involved in a power exchange dynamic cannot be truly happy with one another. Not in The World According to Chloe.
So I think no matter who you are, you have limits that would end a relationship. Most people would say things like… “It’s insane to think about what I would do if he asked me to kill our children; he would never do that!” Well, yes, my point exactly. Your limits are okay, and it IS insane to think about those things, because you are with someone who shares those kinds of limits.
It’s not that you don’t have the limits, it’s that they match your partner’s limits. So you feel safe they will never be explored. Don’t pretend there aren’t people (and couples!) who are murderers, who rape children, who destroy their own families. There are. So imagine trying to be a slave to one of them? Or imagine your Master got a disease that addled his brain, and he suddenly thought those were good things to do, and ordered you to do them. You wouldn’t. Because your core human limits wouldn’t match anymore.
(Btw, if you want to swear up and down that your core limits do NOT include things like murder and pedophilia? I think you’re either delightfully self-deluded, or you need to Go. Away. And. Get. Help. Right. Fucking. Now.)
I have two more things I want to talk about in relation to limits… But I’m going to post them later, I think. I told myself I’d write a short post today, so I’m going to see if I can cut this sucker off while it’s still only semi-long and not colossal.
(EDITED TO ADD: Excuse me while I edit this a billion times. I make WAY too many typos.)
Chloe –
Get over it. We (or at least I) love that about you. And don’t worry, I follow your ramblings perfectly. Though, now that I think about it, maybe that should concern me?
The words “short and sweet” are not in your vocabulary
As for limits… I think we all have them, at different levels. I know there are some slave/sub blogs that I read where I find myself thinking “I could NEVER serve that Master”. And thankfully, I don’t have to. Even those with a slave mindset without an owner have a mental list of things they’re looking for in a Master, things that would be red flags to signal “no way”. I think anyone who swears they have NO limits is deluding themselves… and, like you said, if they’re not, they should get help.
See, I came out of my hole just to say hello to you
. I’ll post real soon, I promise.
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Chloe Reply:
January 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
lalana~
You’re a doll. Leave that hole more often, it’s more fun for me, and probably more fun for you. (Okay, fine, really I’m just selfish.) *grins*
~Chloe
(I nearly forgot to put your name on here. I want nested comments so badly it might kill me.)
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I love it too.
I have limits. Lots of them.
And I’m still a slave.
He says so. And I say so.
That’s all that matters.
xoxo
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Chloe Reply:
January 25th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
bliss~
Amen, sister. (You’re way better at brevity than I am. I need to take a lesson from you. Or seven.)
~Chloe
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See, now I think you were perfectly clear and easily understood. Thank you for sharing and putting into words what I’ve believed for a very long time.
In order to give my power away, I first had to make sure I had chosen the right person to give it to. So yeah, I can be “limitless” within this relationship because I know what things Master would never choose to engage in.
And you’re also very right that it soooo does not matter what other people say and think – the only opinion that matters is your Master’s opinion.
I also totally relate to your mention of being easily fascinated and the little scissors, and it actually prompted a whole posting from me on my own blog!
lol
Peace
Tapestry
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Chloe Reply:
January 25th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Tapestry~
Hi! Now I hafta go see your blog. Anyone who is also fascinated with things like miniature scissors sounds like good people to me. (Truthfully, I’m fascinated by anything miniature. I think this stems from me being a giantess.)
~Chloe
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I believe you explained the Master/slave relationship to a tee. I could have written this post. You think exactly like we do, and really, it makes perfect sense.
Nice post Chloe,
dk
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Chloe Reply:
January 25th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
dk~
Thank you! Although, I refuse to believe I’ve explained anything to a tee. Then I’d be out of exuses to contiune to post about them, and lord knows if I try to shut up, I’ll combust. (wtf. My spellcheck is insisting combust is not a word. I’ll show the little bastard the meaning of combust…)
I’m going to head over to your blog asap.
~Chloe
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Are you fascinated by baby shoes, too? Not any size, only the size 3 and under shoes. I’m telling you, Jes’s baby is going to have the best dressed feet evah!
(and I agree with your post, btw. But you knew that. I think I agree with most everything you say.)
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Chloe Reply:
January 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
kaya~
OMFG, yes. The itty bitty baby shoes are practically proof of a God. I remember once, in my teenage years, having a squealing fit over a pair of VERY small pink sneakers. One of my friends was all, “*ahem* You DO realize babies with feet that small aren’t even CLOSE to walking age, right? They have no need for sneakers, Chlo,” AS IF that was even close to the point…
*sighs*
Some people are really missing out on the best stuff in life with all this “being reasonable” nonsense.
~Chloe
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omg, have you SEEN those tiny little hiking boots for babies??? Omg, my granbaby (If I ever get one) is soooo going to have those!
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Hi Chloe, I have a question for you. I have for some time been trying to understand why some people choose the term “slave” to describe themselves. What it connotes to them that is different than “Submissive”. How can you be “owned” when at the end of the day, the power to submit (or not) is yours? Yes, your Master respects your limits, but if he did not…then you would change things. You agree that it IS in your power to do so. My connotation of slave was someone who was owned and had no say, no limits of their own, could be even killed if their owner decided to do so. The slaves of the south 100 years ago and the slaves in Roman times, etc…they were truly slaves. Are you not just in a relationship in which you are more submissive than I am in mine? So why call yourself slave then? I am not trying to challenge you here, but really just trying to understand. I had some of this discussion with swan sometime ago…and your post reminds me that my knowledge and understanding is still lacking. Thanks, Sara
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Chloe Reply:
January 26th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Good question, Sara. Thanks for bringing it up.
If you don’t mind, I’m going to answer in post-form, hopefully today. And don’t worry, as long as a comment isn’t as puerile as “omg, you, like, suck!” then I’m VERY willing to talk about things.
I’m not preaching here – I’m learning by presenting ideas. As long as the intent behind discussing my ideas isn’t cruel (which yours clearly isn’t!) they’re definitely open for debate and discussion.
I’ll get back to you soon, promise. And thanks again.
~Chloe
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I just found your site through others I read and wow, you defiantly write beautifully. After reading this entry gives me a lot to think about.
Kari
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Chloe Reply:
January 26th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Hey Kari! Thanks for the comment, and I hope I see you around here again!
~Chloe
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Well, I’d have referred back to those discussions with Sara, but she beat me to it… hmmmm.
I tend to believe that the “limits” topic is something of a circular monologue that really seldom goes anywhere. There is always a limit somewhere — anyone who says NO just hasn’t found that edge yet. What is germane, in my view, is what happens, in this kind of dynamic, when you encounter that place? Now, THAT can be interesting. At least it is based on real stuff and not hypotheticals.
Great post.
swan
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Dialogues On Diversity « Finding Sara says:
[...] Just such an exchange has occurred this week. This round of discussion started with Chloe when she posted “I Have Limits”. [...]